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Thread: Verizon Stagnant is So. Orange County Cal

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    Verizon Stagnant is So. Orange County Cal

    Verizon is stagnant regarding new cell deployment in South Orange County California. My city, Laguna Niguel is NIMBY Command Headquarters and visible cells are not allowed. Four years ago, Verizon tried to deploy a mono-pine macro cell sight and was run out of town by a neighborhood HOA. After that experience, they have not been back and haven’t deployed or upgraded anything. On the other hand, T-Mobile took the high road and starting deploying small LTE cells on street lights since these deployments could not be prohibited by the NIMBYs. Additionally, as a result of AT&T Firstnet, AT&T has deployed some new cells on street Lights in Laguna Niguel and is continuing to deploy. It is really like Verizon has walked off the field and only cares about mm wave deployment in large urban cities. There are some Verizon cells in town that are B13 only and the don’t ever get upgraded! Verizon needs to finish properly deploying LTE before moving on to 5g. AT&T is doing it right by adding cells to improve LTE performance. Verizon had better get their act together because AT&T and T-Mobile are playing to win with improving overall coverage in weak areas. Everyday folks don’t care about super fast mm wave technology. They only care about getting good performance out of the devices that they currently own. Verizon better wake-up, or they will find themselves in the number-3 position within another year.

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    It's not only your local. This is the case in many areas across the country except large urban areas and their immediate suburbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CellGeek View Post
    ...Verizon needs to finish properly deploying LTE before moving on to 5g....
    Finishing deploying LTE just before replacing it with 5G makes no economic or engineering sense. Verizon will not be doing this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    Finishing deploying LTE just before replacing it with 5G makes no economic or engineering sense. Verizon will not be doing this.
    5g will never replace LTE in many suburban areas. The ROI isn’t there for them. They would need too many small cells to cover suburban areas. Many folks in those areas don’t care about 5g. They just want decent reliable coverage. They don’t care if they get 30mb/s or 300 mb/s. They just want their phone to work. Less than one bar of signal in many suburban areas just doesn’t cut it. Verizon has had a density problem for years, and 5g deployment highlights that fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CellGeek View Post
    5g will never replace LTE in many suburban areas. The ROI isn’t there for them. They would need too many small cells to cover suburban areas. Many folks in those areas don’t care about 5g. They just want decent reliable coverage. They don’t care if they get 30mb/s or 300 mb/s. They just want their phone to work. Less than one bar of signal in many suburban areas just doesn’t cut it. Verizon has had a density problem for years, and 5g deployment highlights that fact.
    Are you operating under the misconception that 5G will only be at mm-wave and higher frequency mid-band? That is completely incorrect. 5G operates on all of the same frequencies as LTE and doesn't take all small cells to implement. I have T-Mobile 5G on 600 MHz right now out in the country miles from town.

    The cell networks will transition to 5G over a period of years just as it did from 1G, 2G, 3G.

    5G also has the advantage that it can service many more connected devices per cell. That will help with congestion if backhaul is also provisioned.

    I can agree that I, and most people, could not care less what "G" they are using or if they get 30 or 300 Mbps. I can do what needs to be done when I am mobile at 3 Mbps or better.

    Verizon is the very model of decent, reliable coverage, that the others aspire to, around here and many other parts of the country. Verizon continues to build and invest in their network. They are not going down anytime soon.

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    There's a reason Verizon has not been able to be my primary line for quite some time.

    They'd rather just jack the prices, throttle things, and pretend they do not have a capacity problem, as the Verizon SIM had data capacity issues galore.

    I do not see this changing much until they can do anything meaningful with C-Band.

    It's just sad when my $50/mo AT&T Prepaid SIM has worked far better than my $130/mo Verizon postpaid SIM.
    T-Mobile: Magenta Amplified (airline employee plan)
    AT$T: $50 Unlimited Elite Prepaid promo (for more “rural” areas)

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    I’m finding att network to be much better than Verizon nowadays. Couldn’t say that a while back


    Sent from my iPhone using HoFo

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    To be honest, when you get to some of these NIMBY areas, a carrier just decides to not bother, they can spend money in areas actually doing upgrades rather than NIMBY-ville fighting with them for permission. You also ran into the situation where physical changes to existing sites requires going through the whole process, and of course upgrading a band 13 site to anything newer is going to involve new antennas and all that.

    That said, they may have just not gotten to them yet; there were quite a few band 13 sites out of town here which have been rather slow for quite a while, which they just upgraded to 13/5/4(66)/2 sites within the past year or year and a half. I suspect at least here a lot of these sites are using point-to-point wireless backhaul, they were using 1-2 T1s in the 3G days (I'd get exactly 1.5mbps on some), these sites tend to be up out of the way on some hilltop so I imagine running fiber to most of them would be fairly expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    Are you operating under the misconception that 5G will only be at mm-wave and higher frequency mid-band? That is completely incorrect. 5G operates on all of the same frequencies as LTE and doesn't take all small cells to implement. I have T-Mobile 5G on 600 MHz right now out in the country miles from town.

    The cell networks will transition to 5G over a period of years just as it did from 1G, 2G, 3G.

    5G also has the advantage that it can service many more connected devices per cell. That will help with congestion if backhaul is also provisioned.

    I can agree that I, and most people, could not care less what "G" they are using or if they get 30 or 300 Mbps. I can do what needs to be done when I am mobile at 3 Mbps or better.

    Verizon is the very model of decent, reliable coverage, that the others aspire to, around here and many other parts of the country. Verizon continues to build and invest in their network. They are not going down anytime soon.
    Verizon is deploying 5G on Band 5/800 mhz, replacing old 3G carriers. They appear to be converting Band 2/5 (1900/800) 3G to 5G and leaving band 4/13 LTE. 66 and CBRS are both LTE for now, will have to see if they move those to 5G as more devices support them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daisydoo View Post
    I’m finding att network to be much better than Verizon nowadays. Couldn’t say that a while back


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    Still not here . At&ts density is horrible …different strokes for different folks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oopsz View Post
    Verizon is deploying 5G on Band 5/800 mhz, replacing old 3G carriers. They appear to be converting Band 2/5 (1900/800) 3G to 5G and leaving band 4/13 LTE. 66 and CBRS are both LTE for now, will have to see if they move those to 5G as more devices support them.
    Verizon has been using B5 for LTE here for a couple of years. The hierarchy is B66, B5, B13. They will be using some of that for "nationwide" 5G with DSS. Nor sure what is here, as I don't have a 5G device to check with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daisydoo View Post
    I’m finding att network to be much better than Verizon nowadays. Couldn’t say that a while back


    Sent from my iPhone using HoFo
    Where do you live?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Checker79 View Post
    Still not here . At&ts density is horrible …different strokes for different folks
    I was gonna say about the same thing. All markets seem to be a little different. I only know of 2 spots in my market where Verizon is unusable. One spot is in a parking garage in a very dense urban setting and the other is the “beach area” of a raccoon creek state park.


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    Quote Originally Posted by loboheeler View Post
    Verizon has been using B5 for LTE here for a couple of years. The hierarchy is B66, B5, B13. They will be using some of that for "nationwide" 5G with DSS. Nor sure what is here, as I don't have a 5G device to check with.
    Don’t you mean B48, B66, B2, B5, B13? 48 would probably be the first pick because it’s supported by the fewest devices and has the most capacity, and B2 would come before the low bands because its shorter range makes it higher capacity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    Don’t you mean B48, B66, B2, B5, B13? 48 would probably be the first pick because it’s supported by the fewest devices and has the most capacity, and B2 would come before the low bands because its shorter range makes it higher capacity.
    You are not going to see a lot of the higher frequency bands around here, as the range is not very good. Mostly forested hills. The tower heights are also low because of the local NIMBY governments. No B2 here until you get to the flatter urban areas and the Interstate. 30-40 miles away.

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