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Thread: VoNR and ViNR

  1. #1
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    VoNR and ViNR

    Will AT&T be using VoNR and ViNR when they launch 5G SA? Is that something that's just part of 5G SA or does it have to be actively deployed with 5G SA sort of like when LTE was first launched then VoLTE came later. Also I read that ViNR is just part of network so it doesn't require a separate app for video calls, would this mean apps like FaceTime and Duo, WhatsApp etc will basically no longer be needed?

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    All carriers will launch VoNR eventually because it’s the only way they’ll be able to phase out LTE, which should happen around 2030 at the very earliest but probably more like 2035 to 2040. However, as far as I know, no carrier has disclosed when they plan to deploy either VoNR or ViNR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    All carriers will launch VoNR eventually because it’s the only way they’ll be able to phase out LTE, which should happen around 2030 at the very earliest but probably more like 2035 to 2040. However, as far as I know, no carrier has disclosed when they plan to deploy either VoNR or ViNR.
    AFAIK, T-Mobile is the only carrier who has discussed plans regarding VoNR so far. "Another feature T-Mobile is hoping to deploy in 2021 is voice over 5G. Known as VoNR, or “Voice over 5G New Radio”, Ray suggests that we could “start to see stuff in 2021” related to VoNR and that the rollout should be smoother than VoLTE’s. “VoLTE was pretty bumpy,” Ray said. He went on to hint that there may be more to talk about VoNR in early 2021." Source: https://www.tmonews.com/2020/12/t-mo...regation-2021/

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    I've also heard mixed reports about whether the Qualcomm X55 will support VoNR. Supposedly, only the X60 (and presumably newer X65) are able to do VoNR. But I've read a couple reports where some people have claimed that they were able to use some special Qualcomm tool to force VoNR on with the X55 on T-Mobile, and it worked. If the X55 will never officially support VoNR, it's kind of a moot point until some X60/X65 phones come out this year.

    Personally, I really wish somebody from the carriers/manufacturers would address the X55's VoNR support. I'm really curious to know whether the X55 will be software-upgradable to turn on/add support for VoNR officially, or if it will require a hardware upgrade, so I can future-proof my next phone purchase.


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    Hopefully for ATT customers when ATT opts into VoNR they open it up to all phones that support it.

    I had a hell of a time getting VoLTE and LTE working consistently on my unlocked iPhones for the first two years that ATT supported those features.


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    Quote Originally Posted by @TheRealDanny View Post
    Hopefully for ATT customers when ATT opts into VoNR they open it up to all phones that support it.

    I had a hell of a time getting VoLTE and LTE working consistently on my unlocked iPhones for the first two years that ATT supported those features.
    I’m more worried about Android devices purchased outside AT&T. This has been the worse experience for me in getting VoLTE working on Samsung devices that I buy outside AT&T. I have an Samsung S8 that I have been interested in replacing in favor for 5G support but I’m worried it will be the same poor experience in getting VoNR supported. I have had pretty good experiences with Apple devices purchased from the Apple Store work on AT&T with VoLTE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i0wnj00 View Post
    I’m more worried about Android devices purchased outside AT&T. This has been the worse experience for me in getting VoLTE working on Samsung devices that I buy outside AT&T. I have an Samsung S8 that I have been interested in replacing in favor for 5G support but I’m worried it will be the same poor experience in getting VoNR supported. I have had pretty good experiences with Apple devices purchased from the Apple Store work on AT&T with VoLTE.
    I still don't know whether the iPhone 12 series will support VoNR. There have been reports that VoNR was enabled in the next generation of Qualcomm chips. So will the 12 support it?

    On the flip side, the phone probably won't last long enough till it would be required (ie LTE sunset).
    iPhone 12 Pro is my current primary phone. Now using both eSIM and nano SIM. And also have a Galaxy a10e as a backup travel phone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevink1 View Post
    I still don't know whether the iPhone 12 series will support VoNR. There have been reports that VoNR was enabled in the next generation of Qualcomm chips. So will the 12 support it?

    On the flip side, the phone probably won't last long enough till it would be required (ie LTE sunset).
    That is my concern, as well. Specifically, once SA is turned on, what will a lack of VoNR support look like? Will that mean a hard fallback to NSA mode or LTE to use VoLTE? And what will be limited by that, as far as interruptions in data service or future voice codecs go?

    I often use my phone as a hotspot for my work laptop while on a phone call. Having dealt with phones that didn't support VoLTE for years, the fallback to UMTS during calls, while graceful, was painful from a data experience perspective. I'm less concerned about the speed differences between NR SA and LTE, but if it means every phone call is going to disrupt or "bounce" the data session to fall back to NSA or LTE, that will be a problem.

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    At some point, it is possible that there may be 5G available, but not LTE. In which case, without VoNR you would be out of voice contact unless you use some VoIP solution.

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    @blkballoon925, for someone who does a lot of hotspotting and wants the full benefits of 5G, I strongly recommend that you get one of the new iPad Pro models. Not only can iPads typically handle acting as hotspots for far longer (over 24 hours in most tests) but the new iPad Pro models’ Thunderbolt 3 support means you can do wired tethering that eliminates the bottleneck of using Wi-Fi. 5G mmWave can already go up to 4 Gbps but Wi-Fi 6 is limited to less than half of that on 2x2 MIMO devices that only support up to 80 MHz wide channels (i.e. Apple iPhone and iPad Wi-Fi 6 devices). Also, even the iPhone 12 series is still limited to USB 2.0 wired tethering speeds. Basically the only way to truly get your money’s worth from 5G hotspotting right now is if both devices involved support Thunderbolt. (You’d think USB-C alone would be enough, but I’ve seen reports of the 2018 and 2020 iPad Pro models falling back to USB 2.0 speeds when connected to computers. Ugh)

    Plus as an added bonus, iPads are fabulously useful as work laptop companions because having a second large display handy enables use cases like Zoom video conferencing on one (hello, new iPad’s Center Stage feature that automatically pans the wide-angle front camera to keep you near the center) while reading documentation, writing emails, coding, or doing other stuff on the second display.

  11. #11
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    Yes! I was really interested in upgrading to the new iPad Pro (I have the 10.5” Pro now). No 5G support was a big reason I held back on the new iPad Air that came out recently. The 3xCA in this old iPad just doesn’t cut it for more than 30 Mbps down and about 1 Mbps up in good conditions. It’s better than nothing, or having to hunt down public Wi-Fi of unknown security. But that upload speed is pretty painful and I suspect may be causing the downstream to underperform just because it’s not able to send ACKs back fast enough.

    I just couldn’t bring myself to spend that much knowing that the mini LED tech is probably coming to the next iPad Pro 11”. Not to mention, unapproved USB devices can’t be connected to our work laptops and my old work laptop has no Thunderbolt-capable ports or Wi-Fi 6 support anyway, so 11ac is as fast as I could go anyway. My personal MBP could take advantage of the T3 support, but I rarely take it out of the house anymore. I tend to update most of my personal tech every 2-3 years, except for the MacBook, but the equipment we have to use for 3+ years at work makes it feel like living in the dark ages.

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    No USB devices? I suppose Wi-Fi 6 on 5 GHz would be satisfactory, but if you want to eke out the most efficient connection without plugging any USB devices into your work laptop, the only way I can imagine that being possible is if the work laptop has an Ethernet port and you bring along your personal laptop, a Thunderbolt 3 cable, a USB-C to Ethernet adapter, and an Ethernet cable (plus the iPad, of course). You tether the iPad to your personal laptop over TB3, use Internet Sharing to turn the personal laptop into a router that shares its Internet connection over the USB-C to Ethernet adapter plugged into another port, and then connect that adapter to your work laptop via an Ethernet cable. Horribly janky solution, though, and it’d be much better if your work just tweaked the rule to have an exception for USB cellular data tethering, or if they provided you with an officially-sanctioned 5G connection (either built into a new laptop or in their own hotspot device).

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    I've worked at a place where USB devices were not allowed. Which meant that the last PC upgrade cycle, they had to go desktops (so they could have an optical drive), since a USB DVD drive wasn't allowed.

    Then, of course, COVID hits, many of us had to work from home, and we had to carry desktops home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevink1 View Post
    I've worked at a place where USB devices were not allowed. Which meant that the last PC upgrade cycle, they had to go desktops (so they could have an optical drive), since a USB DVD drive wasn't allowed.

    Then, of course, COVID hits, many of us had to work from home, and we had to carry desktops home.
    Only banning USB devices and not all removable media is idiotic and makes me question the technical literacy of any IT department that does so. USB drives can only be a security vulnerability because they can sneak unauthorized files through the workplace’s firewall, but you know what else can do that? Literally any removable media, including CDs. Heck, Chelsea Manning smuggled out all those classified files on a CD by labeling it “Lady Gaga” so that the straight men on duty wouldn’t bother checking it!

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    https://www.telecompetitor.com/att-c...t-c-band-call/

    AT&T and Nokia completed what the vendor calls the first call on AT&T’s network using 5G technology in C-band spectrum. The call, which was conducted early last month in Detroit, was not announced until today.

    AT&T expects to cover 200 million people with 5G deployed in the C-band by the end of 2023. The carrier already has widely deployed 5G in other spectrum bands, but the C-band is important because it is seen by many as supporting an attractive mix of balance and capacity. While service deployed in the band is not as fast as high frequency mmWave spectrum, it has far broader propagation characteristics and, according to proponents, enough capacity for a wide array of uses.

    The C-band spectrum was awarded to AT&T three months ago. The company won the spectrum in an auction that completed earlier this year.

    AT&T and Nokia recently signed a five-year contract for C-band network deployment across the United States.

    The Detroit call was made with a 5G smartphone form factor mobile test device using Qualcomm’s Snapdragon X55 5G modem-RF system, the Nokia AirScale baseband and 5G massive MIMO (mMIMO) antennas that, along with Nokia 5G software, operates in the newly available n77 (3700-3980 MHz) spectrum.

    “AT&T is committed to bringing the power of 5G to even more businesses and communities across the nation.” Kevin Hetrick, AT&T’s Vice President for Construction & Engineering said in a press release. “In fact, we’ve committed to covering more people with C-band by the end of 2023 than any other carrier. Our planned C-Band launch with Nokia will add 5G capacity and coverage where it’s needed.

    The C band auction grossed more than $80.9 billion, which is almost double the previous record of $44.9 billion. AT&T was one of the biggest spenders in the auction.
    The X55 Chipset can make VONR calls with this test. So in theory, the iPhone 12 and other x55 modem devices can make calls over 5G.

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