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Thread: NYC development s

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    NYC development s

    Very happy with T-Mobile service in New York. There certainly better than Verizon and AT&T in the places I’ve use them. Does T-Mobile plan on adding a lot more small cells in the city?

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    T-Mobile's current cell spacing in NYC is about 0.5 km. What they are doing right now is merging Sprint's band 41 (2.5 GHz) spectrum into their network. There are places in NYC where T-Mobile has mmWave 5G but that's not their current focus as mmWave is extremely short range and needs multiple paths to work reliably, since the signal can't penetrate skin or even clothing.
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    If you are happy with them and they outperform everyone else there.....what's the hurry for more small cells? Lol. Sounds like they got it down pretty good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    T-Mobile's current cell spacing in NYC is about 0.5 km. What they are doing right now is merging Sprint's band 41 (2.5 GHz) spectrum into their network. There are places in NYC where T-Mobile has mmWave 5G but that's not their current focus as mmWave is extremely short range and needs multiple paths to work reliably, since the signal can't penetrate skin or even clothing.
    Well I can say Verizon mmWave definitely penetrates clothing, and even works inside of a closed up car.. so it's not as fragile as I even thought it would be.

    I'd consistently get ~1500-2500Mbps on it, as the entire 1mi stretch between my house and gym somehow has it in Chicago.. but two blocks north of my house or south of the gym it just drops off haha, or you know a block off the main road I live off off.

    If they can semi densify mmWave for outdoor, along with C-Band for indoor.. Verizon will be on par with T-Mobile again.. but T-Mobile so far has been way more consistent with 700+Mbps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    Well I can say Verizon mmWave definitely penetrates clothing, and even works inside of a closed up car.. so it's not as fragile as I even thought it would be.

    I'd consistently get ~1500-2500Mbps on it, as the entire 1mi stretch between my house and gym somehow has it in Chicago.. but two blocks north of my house or south of the gym it just drops off haha, or you know a block off the main road I live off off.

    If they can semi densify mmWave for outdoor, along with C-Band for indoor.. Verizon will be on par with T-Mobile again.. but T-Mobile so far has been way more consistent with 700+Mbps.
    For some reason this is an argument that can never be won regardless of results with some people.

    Their is zero doubt that t-mo’s N41 has a much better range and penetration compared to Verizon’s UWB but the fragility of UWB is way overstated. I can get 3 Gbps from a macro over 1/4 mile away through safety glass. From the same site I was still able to hit 2 Gbps on a day when it was raining so hard that I couldn’t even see the site very well. I can get UWB inside my car while stationary and while going 60 Mph. Now yes absolutely the range of UWB is limited.

    When it comes to coverage it isn’t even close when comparing n41 to UWB. Now how the proposition of c-band does in comparison to n41 will be the real question.


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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeInPa View Post
    For some reason this is an argument that can never be won regardless of results with some people.

    Their is zero doubt that t-mo’s N41 has a much better range and penetration compared to Verizon’s UWB but the fragility of UWB is way overstated. I can get 3 Gbps from a macro over 1/4 mile away through safety glass. From the same site I was still able to hit 2 Gbps on a day when it was raining so hard that I couldn’t even see the site very well. I can get UWB inside my car while stationary and while going 60 Mph. Now yes absolutely the range of UWB is limited.

    When it comes to coverage it isn’t even close when comparing n41 to UWB. Now how the proposition of c-band does in comparison to n41 will be the real question.


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    That is also absolutely correct. I am just saying mmWave has done much better in outdoor situations than even I was expecting, and you do need a fairly decent LoS to the site (Verizon seems to have the sites every 1/4 mile or so in this ~1.5mi stretch they seemed to have been using for a test)

    The point of my post, with that kind of range, if the sites are in "plain view".. even mmWave has a place in metro's and should not be fully written off.

    In metro areas C-Band should do well, but I do expect it to be like back in early PCS deployments on 850MHz spaced networks - it "mostly" reaches compared to n41 but weaker in the fringe areas, and will need to be densified to give the "same" level of coverage.

    Also, do not get me wrong.. I'm no fan of Verizon, I was just testing a SIM to see how much they'd actually expanded the mmWave 5G, and if their low band 5G had gotten any better after some time to upgrade more small cells (It really had not)

    I canned it a few days ago when the 30 days was up, and will be keeping T-Mobile as I have zero use for 1+Gbps on my phone currently and value the 300-700Mbps indoors I get on a regular with T-Mobile right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    That is also absolutely correct. I am just saying mmWave has done much better in outdoor situations than even I was expecting, and you do need a fairly decent LoS to the site (Verizon seems to have the sites every 1/4 mile or so in this ~1.5mi stretch they seemed to have been using for a test)

    The point of my post, with that kind of range, if the sites are in "plain view".. even mmWave has a place in metro's and should not be fully written off.

    In metro areas C-Band should do well, but I do expect it to be like back in early PCS deployments on 850MHz spaced networks - it "mostly" reaches compared to n41 but weaker in the fringe areas, and will need to be densified to give the "same" level of coverage.

    Also, do not get me wrong.. I'm no fan of Verizon, I was just testing a SIM to see how much they'd actually expanded the mmWave 5G, and if their low band 5G had gotten any better after some time to upgrade more small cells (It really had not)

    I canned it a few days ago when the 30 days was up, and will be keeping T-Mobile as I have zero use for 1+Gbps on my phone currently and value the 300-700Mbps indoors I get on a regular with T-Mobile right now.
    In my market the testing with T-Mobile has been pretty good with speeds and coverage. More often than not I have found them to be faster than Verizon in a lot of places. They do have a few small little holes which I think they are working on plugging with the conversion of some sprint towers.

    The main reason I don’t use t-mobile is because of in building penetration. I work in healthcare so I’m in an out of different hospitals for for all day and AT&T and Verizon are on almost all the hospital DAS systems so that’s why I keep Verizon, a lot of hospitals near me are dead zones for T-Mo, but to be fair if ATT or verizon wasn’t on those DAS’s they would have no service either because hospitals are notoriously bad for wireless services in their cores.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    mmWave is extremely short range and needs multiple paths to work reliably, since the signal can't penetrate skin or even clothing.
    Then how does it cause cancer?

    Also you're wrong because there are people getting mmwave through glass. Also US Cellular recent demoed mmwave at up to 7 km. Please educate yourself and not drink the kool-aid

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Then how does it cause cancer?
    How do you know it causes cancer? I have yet to see credible evidence of such a cause and effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Then how does it cause cancer?

    Also you're wrong because there are people getting mmwave through glass. Also US Cellular recent demoed mmwave at up to 7 km. Please educate yourself and not drink the kool-aid
    Did I say it causes cancer? You can transmit mmWave thousands of miles through a vacuum, the problem is caused by humidity. If a medium shuts down when it rains, you have to engineer it assuming it will rain. There's also a difference between clothing that's dry and clothing that's damp. I've seen tests of Bluetooth getting ranges of several km. That doesn't mean that you can count on BT working at that range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Then how does it cause cancer?

    Also you're wrong because there are people getting mmwave through glass. Also US Cellular recent demoed mmwave at up to 7 km. Please educate yourself and not drink the kool-aid
    You’re not very bright are you? You need to be educated on the laws of physics when it comes to cellular frequencies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magoo View Post
    You’re not very bright are you? You need to be educated on the laws of physics when it comes to cellular frequencies.
    I’m pretty sure he was being sarcastic. The same people that say mmWave and 5G will give the world cancer are the same people who claim the signals aren’t strong enough to go through a leaf or penetrate through skin.

    And yes I have gotten greater than 3Gbps on mmWave through safety glass over 1/4 mile away from the macro.


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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeInPa View Post
    I’m pretty sure he was being sarcastic. The same people that say mmWave and 5G will give the world cancer are the same people who claim the signals aren’t strong enough to go through a leaf or penetrate through skin.

    And yes I have gotten greater than 3Gbps on mmWave through safety glass over 1/4 mile away from the macro.


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    He sounded serious to me. He needs to study up on the law of physics.

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    It sounded sarcastic to me too
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magoo View Post
    He sounded serious to me. He needs to study up on the law of physics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortyd999 View Post
    It sounded sarcastic to me too

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    He seems to be a very angry individual.

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