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Thread: Verizon C-Band Sites All Equipped with 64T64R Massive MIMO

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    Verizon C-Band Sites All Equipped with 64T64R Massive MIMO

    https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/...-wave/2021/07/

    Amazing news. According to Samsung, relative to 4x4 MIMO, these 64T64R massive MIMO arrays more than triple capacity on average and can even up to sextuple capacity at their peak!

    As for coverage:

    3.5 GHz 64T64R delivers better coverage than 1.8 GHz
    https://www.mobileworldlive.com/huaw...ed-5g-networks

    It’s gonna be awesome to see 5G UW leapfrog the coverage of XLTE. December can’t come soon enough.

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    Verizon spent $52.9 billion to acquire and clear an average of 161 megahertz of C-band spectrum and intends to increase its capex by a cumulative $10 billion through 2023 to expand its 5G network. The operator’s current deployment plan calls for 175 million people to be covered by its mid-band 5G spectrum in 2023.
    If all of those people were to be clients:
    $63 billion : 175 million ppl = $360/person
    That's an impressive number, considering that there are two other providers in the play. That investment is pretty hard to recoup IMO.
    But, too big to fail...

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    That’s not an impressive number at all given that the typical cell phone customer spends around $1,000/year on service. Don’t kid yourself; when these corporations carry debt, it’s not because they can’t pay it off. It’s because it’s more profitable to manipulate their cash flow with loans than to pay for everything in liquid cash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post
    If all of those people were to be clients:
    $63 billion : 175 million ppl = $360/person
    That's an impressive number, considering that there are two other providers in the play. That investment is pretty hard to recoup IMO.
    But, too big to fail...
    Lol that’s only 4ish months of service for a person on the unlimited plans. Not that impressive at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post
    If all of those people were to be clients:
    $63 billion : 175 million ppl = $360/person
    That's an impressive number, considering that there are two other providers in the play. That investment is pretty hard to recoup IMO.
    But, too big to fail...
    That 175 mil is only counting the people that live in the 46 early deployment PEAs. Eventually the whole lower 48 will be covered and they have said they expect to reach 250 million in 2024. Not sure why you are not taking the rest of the US into account or why you assume all this expense has to be paid off in a few years. Heck the licenses are for 12 years

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    That 250 million lives on only 1% of the land area of the US, so that will be easy to cover, it's the other 98% of US land area that will take 10+ more years to cover, and meanwhile, 6G and 7G will have been introduced and rolled out to "select cities".

    The prevailing wisdom of the census bureau says that 95% of US population lives on just 3% of the land area, but they move around, travel, and work across the entirety of the country. Therefore, it behooves the carriers to serve the entirety of the country somehow, either through native coverage or creative roaming such as Verizon's LTE in Rural America program, created 11 years ago, which has yet to include 5G in any form. Have any of the LTEiRA partners launched any 5G in their territory otherwise?

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    I would be shocked if Verizon didn’t license its C-Band spectrum to its LTEIRA partners to extend wide-area 5G UW coverage to underserved areas, especially since it would let them further monetize the spectrum via 5G Home service in those areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwdewey View Post
    That 250 million lives on only 1% of the land area of the US,
    Wrong

    so that will be easy to cover, it's the other 98% of US land area that will take 10+ more years to cover, and meanwhile, 6G and 7G will have been introduced and rolled out to "select cities".
    in what world does it make sense to cover 100% of the US in mmwave or even c-band?

    The prevailing wisdom of the census bureau says that 95% of US population lives on just 3% of the land area,
    actually it's 70%


    but they move around, travel, and work across the entirety of the country. Therefore, it behooves the carriers to serve the entirety of the country somehow,
    So in area where you literally have hundreds of square miles where literally no one ever goes carriers should make sure there is coverage "just in case"? Any areas that have coverage now guess what, will still have coverage even if it's not mmwave or c-band

    either through native coverage or creative roaming such as Verizon's LTE in Rural America program, created 11 years ago, which has yet to include 5G in any form. Have any of the LTEiRA partners launched any 5G in their territory otherwise?
    They won't because it won't be worth the cost and Verizon has been buying LTEiRA partners up anyway and I expect that to continue

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    I did not say that deserts or uninhabited mountainous areas should be covered, my wording was that people move around for work and play, and that means highways, cities and towns of ALL sizes must be covered, at minimum. Around here, energy industry workers range far and wide away from highways, farmers have become huge users of data from cellular providers as their machines monitor GPS and incorporate crop results and performance data, uploading that data via cellular, and the carriers are providing service to supply that demand. No one wants to have to carry multiple cellphones from multiple carriers in order to have service. That went out in the 80's

    It definitely is not worth trying to cover the US with mmwave. No one (myself included) has ever said that it is) It's evidently not worth trying to even cover whole cities with it. I actually feel that mmwave is totally useless in most applications because or well-known limitations, and no carrier has come up with a method yet of utilizing mmwave indoors across multiple rooms, etc. I would say that this is the reason no carrier has yet rolled out mmwave in any sort of wide-scale manner.

    Verizon has purchased a HUGE amount of c-band that covers the entire country, so the hope is that they will use it to do just that. They are well in last place for the amount of of 5G coverage they have at present using their other spectrum.

    I believe that Verizon has purchased 3 LTEiRA partners' assets: Bluegrass, Triangle, and Chat Mobility. They must be profitable to own and operate or Verizon would not have made these purchases. These local carriers shouldered the risk, borrowed the money, and built the infrastructure using Verizon equipment and know-how. These purchases were no-risk buys for Verizon. There remain 18 other partners. Whether they purchase any others does not matter, let's hope Verizon allows these partners to use their new c-band spectrum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwdewey View Post
    I did not say that deserts or uninhabited mountainous areas should be covered, my wording was that people move around for work and play, and that means highways, cities and towns of ALL sizes must be covered, at minimum
    Verizon has always made sure highways had coverage even in rural areas so that's not even an issue. Are highways covered today? yes. Why would they be uncovered in the future?

    Verizon has purchased a HUGE amount of c-band that covers the entire country,.
    Which also comes with buildout requirements. So people worrying worry for nothing

    I believe that Verizon has purchased 3 LTEiRA partners' assets: Bluegrass, Triangle, and Chat Mobility. They must be profitable to own and operate or Verizon would not have made these purchases. These local carriers shouldered the risk, borrowed the money, and built the infrastructure using Verizon equipment and know-how. These purchases were no-risk buys for Verizon. There remain 18 other partners. Whether they purchase any others does not matter, let's hope Verizon allows these partners to use their new c-band spectrum.
    I believe that number has shrunk. anyway I expect Verizon to buy up most of them or buy what's left after they eventually go under

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    Because C-Band with 64T64R massive MIMO has better coverage than PCS and AWS, it seems logical to conclude that all areas currently covered by Band 2 and Band 4/66 will become covered by n77 sometime this decade.

    In terms of range, only Band 13 and Band 5 have better coverage than 64T64R n77.

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    Anyone know which TDD downlink/uplink ratio Verizon uses for TDD bands? If I remember correctly, Sprint had theirs set to favor downlink more heavily than the norm in order to help conceal their lackluster network quality.

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    How much of Verizon C-Band is cleared at year's end? I thought it was 60 MHz but I don't remember where I read that. I live in an area where Verizon could give some relief but VZ seems content using the same cells that served the town from 2000 when Verizon was created. No LTE small cells even though other small towns seem to get them, that sort of complacency has basically caused me to research the other two large carriers.
    Have you read the forum rules lately?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    Anyone know which TDD downlink/uplink ratio Verizon uses for TDD bands? If I remember correctly, Sprint had theirs set to favor downlink more heavily than the norm in order to help conceal their lackluster network quality.
    T-Mobile can adjust it dynamically on the fly based on network usage. My limited results on b41 are around 300 Mbps down and 60 Mbps up. Not the fastest N41 can go but I think it was only on 60 Mhz channel in Carbondale where I tested it.

    https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/4685106906

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    Quote Originally Posted by fraydog View Post
    How much of Verizon C-Band is cleared at year's end? I thought it was 60 MHz but I don't remember where I read that. I live in an area where Verizon could give some relief but VZ seems content using the same cells that served the town from 2000 when Verizon was created. No LTE small cells even though other small towns seem to get them, that sort of complacency has basically caused me to research the other two large carriers.
    Yes, 60 MHz as I recall.

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