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Thread: AT&T, Verizon postpone C-Band rollouts until air safety review

  1. #1
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    AT&T, Verizon postpone C-Band rollouts until air safety review

    Shouldn't they have already done all the testing needed before now??

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/opera...-safety-review

    AT&T and Verizon this morning said they would delay their commercial C-band-based wireless services by a month to allow the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to assess any impact on aviation safety.

    The FAA and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) said in a joint statement: "Today Verizon and AT&T announced that they will voluntarily pause commercial launch of C-band wireless service to further assess any impact on aviation safety technologies. Aviation safety and technology leadership are national priorities, and with today’s announcement these companies have demonstrated their commitment to both. The Federal Aviation Administration and the Federal Communications Commission will continue to coordinate closely to ensure that the United States keeps pace with the rest of the world in deploying next-generation communications technologies safely and without undue delay.”

    Earlier this week the FAA issued a warning over potential interference to airplane safety systems from upcoming 5G deployments in C-band frequencies.

    AT&T provided the following statement: “At the request of the Department of Transportation, today we have voluntarily agreed to defer Phase I C-Band deployments for one month to January 5 while we continue to work in good faith with the FCC and the FAA to understand the FAA’s asserted co-existence concerns. It is critical that these discussions be informed by the science and the data. That is the only path to enabling experts and engineers to assess whether any legitimate co-existence issues exist.”

    Earlier this year, the wireless carriers paid big for new C-band spectrum licenses in the 3.7-3.98 GHz range. Verizon spent about $45.5 billion, and AT&T spent about $23.4 billion for the licenses. The start of initial deployments in major U.S. markets was expected on December 5.

    The delay is a blow to Verizon and AT&T, which have been touting the new spectrum as a way to finally deliver 5G with better capacity and throughput across their national footprints.

    Verizon, in particular, has been touting the benefits that the new spectrum will bring. During its Q3 2021 earnings call, the word “C-band” was mentioned 30 times. Verizon CEO Hans Vestberg said, “Our strategy is becoming a national broadband provider with the best access to the tech for our customers including Fios, fixed wireless access on 5G, 4G millimeter-wave and C-band.”

    Vestberg also said, “C-band Capex was more than $1 billion through the third quarter, and we have placed orders for approximately $2 billion of related equipment year-to-date.”

    What if the delay is extended?

    A one-month delay isn’t such a long time. But a lot depends on the outcome of the FAA’s study. A longer delay could be a big setback for Verizon and AT&T, giving T-Mobile an even greater head start in 5G than it already enjoys.

    In a note to investors, New Street Research analyst Blair Levin said, “Any delay in C-Band use helps T-Mobile in its efforts to lock in 5G customers before Verizon and AT&T have improved their coverage in offering 5G.”

    Levin said a longer delay could also affect consumer perception. If the A block C-band spectrum were delayed until the end of 2022 “then T-Mobile will have a full year of having nationwide 2.5 GHz while the incumbents literally have zero PoPS on C-Band.”

    Although consumer perceptions about 5G do not currently distinguish much between the three major companies, a longer delay in C-band could change that.

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    They've had since 2008 to figure this out. That's when efforts began to get C-Band available for mobile use.

    Dozens of other countries already operate C-Band 5G near airports with no issue, but apparently the cheapskates here have such crummy radio equipment that even hundreds of megahertz of guard band isn't enough for them. Ugh.

    I hope Verizon and AT&T sue over this. It's a blatant bait and switch. At the very least, they should have their early clearing cost payments refunded.

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    What else should we expect when there is zero accountability with our bloated government.

    OTOH, I'm sure the FAA is 100% up to date on their pronoun protocols . . . . . .

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    And then once the month is over then they'll decide to conduct a preliminary 12 month study on their hypothesis...
    “The Internet wasn’t meant to be metered in bits and bytes, so it’s insane that wireless companies are still making you buy it this way. The rate plan is dead — it’s a fossil from a time when wireless was metered by every call or text.” John Legere 1/5/2017

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    Just curious. Does anyone know why the FAA didn’t have any issues when the previous spectrum tenants were using the spectrum to broadcast signals from outer space/satellites to receivers on the ground but now they suddenly have an issue with the spectrum.

    Also you would think that if c-band causes issues around airports then I doubt Verizon would have just got a contract to modernize like 8 Air Force reserve bases along with the air national guard. The articles specifically state UWB/5G upgrades. I imagine C-band would be included in the UWB upgrades.


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    AT&T, Verizon postpone C-Band rollouts until air safety review

    Why the FAA and FCC have not already done this, we do not know. Maybe we will learn more.

    The negative comments, though, regarding the aviation industry, old equipment, et al seem, at best, misplaced by some - maybe even a bit ignorant.

    The aviation industry is made up of the airline and general aviation which co-exist in the same airspace along the government and other industries. From time to time, new restrictions and requirements are imposed on pilots, aircraft owners, airspace in and around airports to protect both aircraft and passengers in the air and people and property on the ground within a ~ 15-mile perimeter of the airport. This is why there are height restrictions that the FAA imposes and regulates for all civil airports - not just the ones that airlines fly in and out of.

    This is particularly important for aircraft on approach in inclement weather conditions. Just like other people who have or proclaim to have special property rights or privileges, the imposition of new equipment upgrades require adequate notice and a transition period as much as 10 years. Rapidly rising and high terrain are also issues which make accurate radio altimeters important without spurious interference.

    It sounds like the FAA, FCC, or both were flat footed. The aviation industry does adapt but don’t expect a flip of the switch particularly when public safety is at hand and paramount.

    I offer this, not in defense, but to enhance understanding from perspectives of a pilot and former private aircraft owner (with others).

    (BTW, there are +5K public use airports and +14K private use airports per https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1990/).

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    Quote Originally Posted by shortyd999 View Post
    AT&T provided the following statement: “At the request of the Department of Transportation, today we have voluntarily agreed to defer Phase I C-Band deployments for one month to January 5 while we continue to work in good faith with the FCC and the FAA to understand the FAA’s asserted co-existence concerns. It is critical that these discussions be informed by the science and the data. That is the only path to enabling experts and engineers to assess whether any legitimate co-existence issues exist.”
    Thank goodness we have such a qualified person running the Department of Transportation. He should be able to help out this situation with his vast experience . . . But he's very busy these days solving so many other issues (Haha)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post
    OTOH, I'm sure the FAA is 100% up to date on their pronoun protocols . . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by gdrenick74 View Post
    Why the FAA and FCC have not already done this, we do not know. Maybe we will learn more.

    The negative comments, though, regarding the aviation industry, old equipment, et al seem, at best, misplaced by some - maybe even a bit ignorant.

    The aviation industry is made up of the airline and general aviation which co-exist in the same airspace along the government and other industries. From time to time, new restrictions and requirements are imposed on pilots, aircraft owners, airspace in and around airports to protect both aircraft and passengers in the air and people and property on the ground within a ~ 15-mile perimeter of the airport. This is why there are height restrictions that the FAA imposes and regulates for all civil airports - not just the ones that airlines fly in and out of.

    This is particularly important for aircraft on approach in inclement weather conditions. Just like other people who have or proclaim to have special property rights or privileges, the imposition of new equipment upgrades require adequate notice and a transition period as much as 10 years. Rapidly rising and high terrain are also issues which make accurate radio altimeters important without spurious interference.

    It sounds like the FAA, FCC, or both were flat footed. The aviation industry does adapt but don’t expect a flip of the switch particularly when public safety is at hand and paramount.

    I offer this, not in defense, but to enhance understanding from perspectives of a pilot and former private aircraft owner (with others).

    (BTW, there are +5K public use airports and +14K private use airports per https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1990/).
    Meh. I think if there were any issues whatsoever found, AT&T would have been ordered to shut down all of the many sites that have had C band deployed since May. They are still active. And they are deployed in the vicinity of 2 major Airports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10mm View Post
    Meh. I think if there were any issues whatsoever found, AT&T would have been ordered to shut down all of the many sites that have had C band deployed since May. They are still active. And they are deployed in the vicinity of 2 major Airports.
    Also right in the FCC release they flat out admit that frequencies similar to c-band at similar power levels are already in use in 40 countries and they still have ZERO reports of any harmful interference.

    This really makes me wonder the purpose of this delay. Verizon and AT&T payed extra to get the first swath of cleared spectrum. IMO both companies should get a little of that money back.


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  11. #11
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    https://www.icao.int/NACC/Documents/...RC2019-P08.pdf

    Take a look at the spectrum section. Hopefully, it will just be a pause and nothing more.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gdrenick74 View Post
    https://www.icao.int/NACC/Documents/...RC2019-P08.pdf

    Take a look at the spectrum section. Hopefully, it will just be a pause and nothing more.


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    I still don’t see anywhere in this presentation where they provide examples of how c-band use actually caused any interference or issues.

    A lot of these articles are the same. They all state how detrimental c-band spectrum can be to the airline industry and that c-band spectrum can cause significant impact to airport and aircraft operations followed by a tiny blurb at the bottom stating that they have zero evidence of this actually happening anywhere.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gdrenick74 View Post
    Why the FAA and FCC have not already done this, we do not know. Maybe we will learn more.

    The negative comments, though, regarding the aviation industry, old equipment, et al seem, at best, misplaced by some - maybe even a bit ignorant.

    The aviation industry is made up of the airline and general aviation which co-exist in the same airspace along the government and other industries. From time to time, new restrictions and requirements are imposed on pilots, aircraft owners, airspace in and around airports to protect both aircraft and passengers in the air and people and property on the ground within a ~ 15-mile perimeter of the airport. This is why there are height restrictions that the FAA imposes and regulates for all civil airports - not just the ones that airlines fly in and out of.

    This is particularly important for aircraft on approach in inclement weather conditions. Just like other people who have or proclaim to have special property rights or privileges, the imposition of new equipment upgrades require adequate notice and a transition period as much as 10 years. Rapidly rising and high terrain are also issues which make accurate radio altimeters important without spurious interference.

    It sounds like the FAA, FCC, or both were flat footed. The aviation industry does adapt but don’t expect a flip of the switch particularly when public safety is at hand and paramount.

    I offer this, not in defense, but to enhance understanding from perspectives of a pilot and former private aircraft owner (with others).

    (BTW, there are +5K public use airports and +14K private use airports per https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1990/).
    EXCEPT planes have no issues when flying in other countries where these same frequencies have ben in use for mobile for YEARS. So yes I have to question the quality of US planes when they are the only ones to seem to have an issue. Also if 400 MHz is not enough of guard band something is seriously wrong with your equipment. There is ZERO reason why equipment working in the 4200 MHz-4400 MHz range needs a 10% guard band

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeInPa View Post
    Also right in the FCC release they flat out admit that frequencies similar to c-band at similar power levels are already in use in 40 countries and they still have ZERO reports of any harmful interference.

    This really makes me wonder the purpose of this delay. Verizon and AT&T payed extra to get the first swath of cleared spectrum. IMO both companies should get a little of that money back.


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    Simple math they paid to get spectrum 24 months early since it's delayed a month they should get back 1/24 what they paid MINIMUM and it should come for the FAA's budget

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    This is useful information from CTIA which makes efforts to refute some of the aviation industry claims.

    https://api.ctia.org/wp-content/uplo...ical-Annex.pdf

    I wholly agree with the transparency and evidence arguments. The one-month pause is probably the final “put up or shut up” phase.”


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