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Thread: Verizon and at&T give airlines another year

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    Verizon and at&T give airlines another year

    Has Verizon not learn anything from their CDMA shutdown? When you have a deadline and keep extending it, weirdly the people getting the extension always still need more time.

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    Assume you are speaking of C-Band usage around airports. Can you provide a reference article?

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    https://www.engadget.com/faa-c-band-...183206836.html

    It’s a load of crap. The airlines wouldn’t be having this problem if they hadn’t cheaped out on their radio receivers. How in the world is any aircraft considered flightworthy with a totally unfiltered altimeter receiver?? And why aren’t the airlines being financially penalized for this irresponsible behavior???

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    Verizon and at&T give airlines another year

    How is this not a problem internationally? From what I understand this spectrum is already in use overseas. Do our airlines not fly internationally anymore?

    I mean, I haven’t set foot in an airport in over a decade, and I never plan to again as the entire industry and the security theater around the TSA that is wholly incompatible with living in a free country makes me want to vomit, but I’m pretty sure at least the big carriers still fly to other countries yes?

    What a load of crap.


    Sent from my iPhone using HoFo

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    https://www.engadget.com/faa-c-band-...183206836.html

    It’s a load of crap. The airlines wouldn’t be having this problem if they hadn’t cheaped out on their radio receivers. How in the world is any aircraft considered flightworthy with a totally unfiltered altimeter receiver?? And why aren’t the airlines being financially penalized for this irresponsible behavior???
    It makes you think if they are using outdated altimeters from the 80s what other parts of the plane are substandard?

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    I believe this situation exposes some serious concerns with the Federal Aviation Administration and American airplane owners/airlines. First of all the FAA should have not allowed altimeters to be used when they are unable to stay in their assigned spectrum lane without them becoming unusable putting pilots/passengers at unnecessary risk. In addition to that it seems the Federal Aviation Administration is more concerned about the airline owners/investors profit margins and not pilot/passenger safety due to all the years of inaction on this known issue. In addition it shows the power of greed with airline/airplane owners that they are willing to endanger their pilots/passengers in the name of profits. The simple solution to this problem is for the FAA to set a firm upgrade date and if the upgrades are not done by said date the airplane is permanently grounded until upgrades are completed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    It makes you think if they are using outdated altimeters from the 80s what other parts of the plane are substandard?
    The fact that airlines are allowed to reuse altimeters indefinitely either needs to be heavily regulated or made illegal since airlines/airplane owners had no problem putting pilots/peoples lives at risk in the name of profit if you believe their narrative of the dangers of 5G C Band deployment.

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    To me, the only silver lining here is Verizon and AT&T having to accelerate their mmWave deployments in and around airports instead of kicking the can down the road via blanketing airports with n77 from a macro and calling it a day. mmWave has so much capacity that once an airport is blanketed in it, you shouldn’t ever see congestion there again. I prefer solutions that last the longest even if they cost more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    To me, the only silver lining here is Verizon and AT&T having to accelerate their mmWave deployments in and around airports instead of kicking the can down the road via blanketing airports with n77 from a macro and calling it a day. mmWave has so much capacity that once an airport is blanketed in it, you shouldn’t ever see congestion there again. I prefer solutions that last the longest even if they cost more.
    I think the silver lining is this is forcing the airlines to upgrade "safety" equipment that was first used before half the country was even born

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    The articles I have read on other sites use the words "coming soon" when referring to the carriers' ability and schedule to turn on this new spectrum. We all are far too familiar with that term what it means in the real world. Far too often, this term comes along with the terms "select cities", "select areas" and "not available everywhere", terms which are just as notorious as "coming soon". And in the end they all mean that the service will only be available in an extremely tiny area of the country and nowhere else for a few years, and taking many years to become available across a carrier's entire system.

    I would hope that since it has already been a few years since the carriers were given the OK to use this spectrum that they have been hard at work on their sites to enable its use across the vast majority of the territory where they have that OK to use it, so that when they can actually turn it on, they will do so. But past experience is a great teacher, and I would not place any bets on things being any different with C-Band than it has been with any previous cellular technology. The very fact that they have only turned it on on a few few sites in the PEA markets where they have the OK to do so already is quite telling.

    I don't know if turning on the new spectrum requires totally new radio equipment, antennas, or just software updates at each individual site, but both AT&T and Verizon are so far behind T-Mobile in their 5G roll-outs right now, even with their low-band, that they need to make a HUGE splash when they can finally turn C-Band on and do it across a HUGE chunk of the country right on that date, not some far off in years to come, "coming soon" date.

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    C-Band deployments have been primarily delayed by supply chain issues caused by COVID-19, as far as I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwdewey View Post
    but both AT&T and Verizon are so far behind T-Mobile in their 5G roll-outs right now, even with their low-band, that they need to make a HUGE splash when they can finally turn C-Band on and do it across a HUGE chunk of the country right on that date, not some far off in years to come, "coming soon" date.
    at&t maybe Verizon not so much. Verizon has 113 mil pops covered as of March 31 and plan on having 175 mil minimum covered by the end of 2022. and at least 2050 mil covered by the end of 2023 and T-Mobile plans on having 300 mil covered by the end of 2023. Low-end 5G doesn't matter. And in a few months when release 17 is officially out in the wild n13 can happen. Though no devices exist for that but that's coming. In 3, 4, 5 year is it going to matter who was "first"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    In 3, 4, 5 year is it going to matter who was "first"?
    Especially since most people don’t give a crap about 5G directly and only want their phones to work. Verizon LTE is already more than good enough in most places for people to always be able to use their phones, so it’s not like there’s an emergency need for immediate ubiquitous n77.

    Midband 5G NSA is really only a capacity boost for existing use cases. It doesn’t do anything LTE can’t do. Transformative use cases are only possible on 5G Standalone with edge computing, and/or with millimeter wave 5G. So it’s not like delayed availability of midband 5G NSA is preventing Verizon customers from doing everything they want with their phones, except of course in spots of congestion that won’t be relieved by LTE densification alone.

    T-Mobile is making such a big deal out of n41 because their LTE network sucks relative to those of the duopoly. Pockets of speed and capacity are all they’ve got to distinguish their network, in addition to lower prices and better perks of course. But the average person cares more about reliability than cost, and therefore is willing to pay the higher prices for Verizon/AT&T to not have to deal with T-Mobile’s Swiss cheese network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    C-Band deployments have been primarily delayed by supply chain issues caused by COVID-19, as far as I know.
    They will be blaming the supply chain for the slow roll-out this time for sure, but the end result will be the same as in years past with previous technology upgrades as C-Band will be slowly rolled out beginning a year from now and taking 10+ years beyond that to become the norm across their entire systems. AT&T is allowed to have C-Band over a decent part of the country right now, one market PEA here in Oklahoma being one, but they have not launched a single site, is this due to supply-chain issues? Have they done any upgrades to any sites already in preparation for actually launching the service a year from now? Or have these supply-chain issues prevented AT&T from doing any site upgrades anywhere in the country?

    Since this is the Verizon forum I will give credit to Verizon for actually launching 5-6 sites here in the one market PEA in the state where they are currently allowed to provide service. These sites only cover about 1% of the PEA territory but it's a start. I hope they are installing the equipment right now so that when the time comes that they can go truly nationwide they can just flip a switch and have a large territory going live all at once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    Especially since most people don’t give a crap about 5G directly and only want their phones to work. Verizon LTE is already more than good enough in most places for people to always be able to use their phones, so it’s not like there’s an emergency need for immediate ubiquitous n77.

    Midband 5G NSA is really only a capacity boost for existing use cases. It doesn’t do anything LTE can’t do. Transformative use cases are only possible on 5G Standalone with edge computing, and/or with millimeter wave 5G. So it’s not like delayed availability of midband 5G NSA is preventing Verizon customers from doing everything they want with their phones, except of course in spots of congestion that won’t be relieved by LTE densification alone.

    T-Mobile is making such a big deal out of n41 because their LTE network sucks relative to those of the duopoly. Pockets of speed and capacity are all they’ve got to distinguish their network, in addition to lower prices and better perks of course. But the average person cares more about reliability than cost, and therefore is willing to pay the higher prices for Verizon/AT&T to not have to deal with T-Mobile’s Swiss cheese network.
    You make a good point, T-Mobile's network really is swiss-cheese in nature. It's great where you have it and their mid-band really is good, where it is available of course. They have stated plans to remedy this situation by making an agreement with Crown Castle for access to hundreds of new sites, as well as stating the intention to add thousands of new sites across the country. We will see how that turns out.

    Gaps in coverage do matter to customers, so it is arguably just as important, if not more, to have that seamless coverage as it is to have coverage in the population centers that give the carriers the population numbers they like to brag about. In a theoretical situation, having a service in New York City and Los Angeles and nothing in between gives a carrier their right to claim "nationwide service" and coverage for 25% of the population (an incorrect figure I know, just for illustration) but to a user who travels the entire country, those nationwide and population claims mean absolutely nothing, their service will be bad and they will be upset.

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