Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: Verizon Testing New Tethering Detection, Making False Positives

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9,996
    Device(s)
    Too Many
    Carrier(s)
    All Four
    Feedback Score
    0

    Verizon Testing New Tethering Detection, Making False Positives

    Verizon over the past two weeks has been making new attempts at tethering detection.

    While I won't go into raw technical specifics of what they are doing that is different, this is by far the most intense regime I have seen to date.

    I can confirm multiple false positive incidents (people not tethering, but getting data logged as tethering). It appears Verizon is attempting to create some "block list" of tethering fingerprints or servers, and non-tethered use is being swept up in the process.

    It's worth pointing out DISH has said they will treat tethering same as on-device data. Why Verizon is going to such great lengths, for this one use case - that Verizon promised not to interfere with in an FCC settlement agreement, in 2010 - is beyond me. Especially when they welcome Apple Watch, wearOS, CarPlay, Android Auto, and just about any device made by FAANG to tether for free. But hey, it's not like they agreed to not favor one data use case over another.
    ChristopherPrice.net
    Phone.news (Temp Mod Note: Non-profit)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    3,650
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    Verizon over the past two weeks has been making new attempts at tethering detection.

    While I won't go into raw technical specifics of what they are doing that is different, this is by far the most intense regime I have seen to date.

    I can confirm multiple false positive incidents (people not tethering, but getting data logged as tethering). It appears Verizon is attempting to create some "block list" of tethering fingerprints or servers, and non-tethered use is being swept up in the process.

    It's worth pointing out DISH has said they will treat tethering same as on-device data. Why Verizon is going to such great lengths, for this one use case - that Verizon promised not to interfere with in an FCC settlement agreement, in 2010 - is beyond me. Especially when they welcome Apple Watch, wearOS, CarPlay, Android Auto, and just about any device made by FAANG to tether for free. But hey, it's not like they agreed to not favor one data use case over another.
    A) Verizon's network or anyone else can handle unlimited tethering. If you can't understand that basic principle then this conversation is over. I'm a paying customer why should MY experience be lessons because someone is too cheap to get real internet?

    B) The FCC agreement doesn't say what you think it says. In no way dos it say Verizon has to allow unlimited tethering

    Why you want to ruing your own experience on a service you pay for so people can be cheap is beyond me. Talk about cutting your nose to spite your face. when Verizon's full allotment of c-band is launched and mmwave is more widely deployed THEN we can talk about unlimited tethering

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    20,967
    Device(s)
    Samsung Galaxy S21 5G
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    A) Verizon's network or anyone else can handle unlimited tethering.
    Was that supposed to be "...........can't handle unlimited tethering."?
    Just another day in paradise.....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9,996
    Device(s)
    Too Many
    Carrier(s)
    All Four
    Feedback Score
    0
    Regardless, DISH very clearly claims they can. They are offering Nighthawk M6 Pro's at-cost with a $25/month all-you-can-eat data option. Much like the AT&T Mobley and OG Unlimited Plus promos, except on their 5G SA network - and standalone (no phone required).

    Also all DISH Project Genesis lines have unlimited tethering and hotspot on phones - officially.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Why you want to ruing your own experience on a service you pay for so people can be cheap is beyond me. Talk about cutting your nose to spite your face.
    Frankly anyone can use DeX or iPadOS 16 Desktop mode, and use the same amount of data. Even Xcloud takes the place of Microsoft Game Pass in terms of data use - you're just using more data streaming, rather than downloading up-front... it works out the same for a gamer data-wise.

    These rules only hurt less-affluent geeks that can't buy a USB-C Lapdock from AliExpress.

    B) The FCC agreement doesn't say what you think it says. In no way dos it say Verizon has to allow unlimited tethering
    The FCC closed two formal cases deciding... not to decide the matter. Formally, they said they would not decide it at that time (2019). So you are free to feel that way, but it's a reasonable disagreement - you should convey that is your opinion, you do not get to have the final say. The Biden FCC might make that decision, or it might be a future FCC. Even then, it may go to court, and the federal court will have the true final say.

    While the FCC won't say, it is believed both cases suffered a 2-2 deadlock vote, seeing as then-Chairman Pai worked for Verizon, and almost certainly had to recuse himself.

    And that's before you get to laws like CA SB822, which also further explicitly say tethering shall not be treated differently from other cellular data.

    The text of the 2010 Verizon-FCC settlement agreement explicitly states Verizon will not interfere with apps like EasyTether.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,655
    Device(s)
    iPhone, iPad, Netgear Nighthawk mobile hotspot
    Carrier(s)
    Verizon Wireless, AT&T
    Feedback Score
    0
    Dish can only offer truly unlimited tethering because they have so few customers. You usually get the whole tower to yourself when using Dish.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9,996
    Device(s)
    Too Many
    Carrier(s)
    All Four
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    Dish can only offer truly unlimited tethering because they have so few customers. You usually get the whole tower to yourself when using Dish.
    I can say there was no direct discussions pre-merger, but keep in mind, my company filed formal objection at the FCC to ask for a fourth wireless carrier to be created as part of this deal. We asked for unlimited hotspot and tethering to be made as a concession. We got the former, and the latter through Global Plus being kept on the market.

    There were only 24 other firms that filed objections. We talked with the parties about what we wanted, and eventually, withdrew objection. We also got assurances from T-Mobile that startups launching devices would be allowed to use their network without fear of IMEI blocking.

    DISH, in my view, sees the writing on the wall that net neutrality is going to happen. They also have adequate AWS and C-Band to densify and handle the load, spectrum-wise. I can't say explicitly they are returning the favor to me by offering this today. But I can say my company looks forward to working with DISH on upcoming products.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,276
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    But I can say my company looks forward to working with DISH on upcoming products.

    After all these years, you're still having those delusions of grandeur? You ever heard the expression "gnat on an elephant's ***"?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    749
    Carrier(s)
    Sprint/T-Mobile
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bmtvaquero View Post
    After all these years, you're still having those delusions of grandeur? You ever heard the expression "gnat on an elephant's ***"?
    Hopefully this time he doesn't start a kickstart and dip out with the money like before, or if he does people aren't as gullible this time.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 using HoFo mobile app

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9,996
    Device(s)
    Too Many
    Carrier(s)
    All Four
    Feedback Score
    0
    I had two surgical skull fractures, and nearly died. They were due to damage I suffered a birth, and the surgeries didn't go well. I spent much of the past few years under care. That's why I was on Reddit... a lot.

    But I'm not dead and my company is restaffing. We weren't responsible for Intel pulling out of Android suddenly, but we are still fighting that good fight. I'm going to leave it there for now.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    3,650
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    DISH, in my view, sees the writing on the wall that net neutrality is going to happen. They also have adequate AWS and C-Band to densify and handle the load, spectrum-wise. I can't say explicitly they are returning the favor to me by offering this today. But I can say my company looks forward to working with DISH on upcoming products.
    You need to define "adequate" because yours and mine definition must differ. Nationwide they have ZERO 3.7 GHz c-band 10-40 MHz CBRS and 20-40 MHz 3.45 GHz. Hardly adequate In my county they have 10 MHz CBRS and 20 MHz 3.45 GHz. Yeah good luck competing with the other 3 with that. meanwhile Verizon is sitting on 160 MHz of 3.7 GHz c-band and at&t has 80 MHz of 3.7 GHz, 40 MHz of 3.45 GHz

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    749
    Carrier(s)
    Sprint/T-Mobile
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    I had two surgical skull fractures, and nearly died. They were due to damage I suffered a birth, and the surgeries didn't go well. I spent much of the past few years under care. That's why I was on Reddit... a lot.

    But I'm not dead and my company is restaffing. We weren't responsible for Intel pulling out of Android suddenly, but we are still fighting that good fight. I'm going to leave it there for now.
    That sucks, well, just stay off Kickstarter this time Chris, the FTC has gotten involved a lot more in Kickstarter fraud since your console os scam. Best of luck.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 using HoFo mobile app

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    3,650
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Port View Post
    Was that supposed to be "...........can't handle unlimited tethering."?
    Yes........

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,758
    Device(s)
    N/A
    Carrier(s)
    Verizon Wireless;
    Feedback Score
    0
    More power to them. FCC ruling aside, I got a plan that was much lower cost than my previous one knowing I had a 15GB hotspot then throttle after that. What can I say, it's a distinct possibility that some of my computer-originated traffic was not showing up as hotspot traffic. I wouldn't blame them a bit if they began to count this traffic as hotspot traffic.

    False positives aren't cool, though, it'll be good for the to work those out for sure.

    Edit: And a thumbs up in general to hatoncat and Dish. A carrier with no "baggage" (no vestiges of a 2G, 3G, or 4G network to have to support), I suspect not having to support those standards + not having any old hardware you have to integrate with could greatly reduce the costs on rolling out a new network and hopefully speed up install times too. I do have my doubts on how it'll turn out, but I'm hopeful; I'm ready for some $25 unlimited data

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    65
    Feedback Score
    0
    Will this affect the gUDP?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,655
    Device(s)
    iPhone, iPad, Netgear Nighthawk mobile hotspot
    Carrier(s)
    Verizon Wireless, AT&T
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by noton View Post
    Will this affect the gUDP?
    No, because of Verizon agreeing to allow truly unlimited tethering on the gUDP.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Verizon pricing for new tethering plan BroadbandAccess Connect
    By mobilicity in forum Verizon Wireless
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-22-2005, 10:53 PM
  2. FS: Brand New T68m - unlocked - make offers!
    By wassy in forum GSM phone Buy/Sell/Trade Archive
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 09-17-2002, 08:44 PM
  3. Verizon's new bill
    By cap in forum Verizon Wireless
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-10-2002, 08:39 PM
  4. When will Verizon have new phones
    By cap in forum Verizon Wireless
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-17-2001, 11:45 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks