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Thread: In Future Would Verizon (& ATT&T & T-Mo) Be Better Off Just Densifying Instead Of Buying Spectrum?

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    In Future Would Verizon (& ATT&T & T-Mo) Be Better Off Just Densifying Instead Of Buying Spectrum?

    So Verizon spent what $45 billion of spectrum last year? Their stock is dropping with all that debt. So how do the Telco's keep up going forward? They can't afford to keep spending that much on spectrum. Could Verizon densify the network so well that what they own now could keep up for the next 5-10 years while they figure out how to maximize their mm wave holdings for future growth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlimar1 View Post
    So Verizon spent what $45 billion of spectrum last year? Their stock is dropping with all that debt. So how do the Telco's keep up going forward? They can't afford to keep spending that much on spectrum. Could Verizon densify the network so well that what they own now could keep up for the next 5-10 years while they figure out how to maximize their mm wave holdings for future growth?
    They need to roll-out their mm-Wave spectrum since that is the only band that can support large amounts of traffic which requires them to denisfy their network. It is going to take years since the wireless carriers would have to deploy that equipment on every street for the signal to reach so large amounts of users would connect to mm-Wave lowering the traffic on the other wireless bands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by techguru30 View Post
    They need to roll-out their mm-Wave spectrum since that is the only band that can support large amounts of traffic which requires them to denisfy their network. It is going to take years since the wireless carriers would have to deploy that equipment on every street for the signal to reach so large amounts of users would connect to mm-Wave lowering the traffic on the other wireless bands.
    And doing that would require them to spend that same $45 billion on equipment to place those sites on every single street corner. It is an either/or situation. mmWave is only appropriate for use in a very small number of densely populated cities unless there is some huge breakthrough coming up with new radio technology that we do not know about..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlimar1 View Post
    So Verizon spent what $45 billion of spectrum last year? Their stock is dropping with all that debt. So how do the Telco's keep up going forward? They can't afford to keep spending that much on spectrum. Could Verizon densify the network so well that what they own now could keep up for the next 5-10 years while they figure out how to maximize their mm wave holdings for future growth?
    A) there isn't going to be another spectrum auction for at least 2 1/2 more years. 3.1-3.45 GHz can't be auctioned before May 31, 2025. Payment for any spectrum wouldn't be due until after the auction which would take months so it would be at least 3 years before Verizon would have to come up with any significant money

    B) densifying won't solve everything. The 160 MHz of c-band( up to 200 MHz in some places ) is going to help a lot.
    Also when it comes to LTE at best Verizon has about 60 MHz of downlink to use at a time in most places far less. To get the same use of c-band they have to triple the number of towers which is not practical and not financially cheaper and actually wouldn't provide the same bandwidth as c-band would anyway. And the biggest issue with new towers is NIMBYs. Also you'll talking about total cost of a tower say over decades maybe more than spectrum. MY PEA Verizon paid $21 mil for 160 MHz of c-band. My PEA is rather sparsely populated for it's size and to triple the number of towers would cost WAY more than $21 mil and would not be early as effective. Also do you really want to see even mroe tower popping up? Especially if you can avoid it. Yes new towers where necessary for COVERAGE not to increase bandwidth

    C) debt has ZERO to do with why their stock is tanking. at&t has as much debt. Also a lot of Verizon's dent isn't due for DECADES. As far away as 2061

    D) They can chew gum and walk at the same time. And for the record they ARE densifying the network, mmwave and c-band kind of require it. I'm not sure where you get the idea that they aren't. Either you heard from someone stupid or reading it an article written by someone stupid. Whomever it was, was stupid regardless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwdewey View Post
    And doing that would require them to spend that same $45 billion on equipment to place those sites on every single street corner. It is an either/or situation. mmWave is only appropriate for use in a very small number of densely populated cities unless there is some huge breakthrough coming up with new radio technology that we do not know about..
    There already has been if one is paying attention. Hell just beamforming allows signals to not be line of sight. Also there are repeaters which is cheaper than putting up for mmwave small cells. Also Small number? There are already 90+ cities that have mmwave with more on the way. Verizon didn't spend billions in to have mmwave in nearly every county to just not use it. Not to mention there in fact buildout requirements

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwdewey View Post
    And doing that would require them to spend that same $45 billion on equipment to place those sites on every single street corner. It is an either/or situation. mmWave is only appropriate for use in a very small number of densely populated cities unless there is some huge breakthrough coming up with new radio technology that we do not know about..
    Holographic beamforming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    There already has been if one is paying attention. Hell just beamforming allows signals to not be line of sight. Also there are repeaters which is cheaper than putting up for mmwave small cells. Also Small number? There are already 90+ cities that have mmwave with more on the way. Verizon didn't spend billions in to have mmwave in nearly every county to just not use it. Not to mention there in fact buildout requirements
    Thanks for this information. Since you say there are build-out requirements and they cover nearly every county in the country, what are those build-out requirements? I am sure I have read the before but it has been too long.

    After some digging, I found an undated article on coveragecritic.com which lists 84 cities where Verizon has deployed mmWave coverage. One can dig down DEEP into Verizon's coverage maps and find which street corners you would have to stand on in order to use the service. This only applies to certain cities as they do not distinguish between mmWave and C-Band where the two overlap. I guess this is because Verizon now labels both mmWave or C-Band as UltraWideband 5G.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    Interesting concept, hopefully Verizon and AT&T will put it to massive use across the country, and that Verizon will allow partner carriers to use it in cities within their service areas where Verizon has no system of their own. The same goes for C-Band, but they have not addressed either yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwdewey View Post
    This only applies to certain cities as they do not distinguish between mmWave and C-Band where the two overlap. I guess this is because Verizon now labels both mmWave or C-Band as UltraWideband 5G.
    Install this Chrome extension to be able to see Verizon mmWave coverage within Verizon C-Band coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    Install this Chrome extension to be able to see Verizon mmWave coverage within Verizon C-Band coverage.
    I'd never heard of this, thanks very much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwdewey View Post
    Interesting concept, hopefully Verizon and AT&T will put it to massive use across the country, and that Verizon will allow partner carriers to use it in cities within their service areas where Verizon has no system of their own. The same goes for C-Band, but they have not addressed either yet.
    You asked about mmwave. Which of these partners bought mmwave exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    There's a lot of advancement coming for mmWave. I think a lot of tech enthusiasts looked at what one might call "first-gen" mmWave -- those early deployments of a single 100 MHz carrier on Nokia hardware in a couple cities in 2018 and 2019 -- and assume that's the best that can be done with the spectrum.

    It's happening. I just saw this article today.

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/...wave-australia

    Samsung Electronics heralded new milestones in Australia, where it recently demonstrated record-setting average downlink speeds of 1.75 Gbps in a field trial with NBN Co. using 28 GHz 5G millimeter wave fixed wireless access (FWA) gear.

    It’s the farthest 5G mmWave FWA connection recorded by Samsung, covering a distance of 10 kilometers, or about 6.2 miles. Average uplink speeds were 61.5 Mbps.
    6.2 miles is farther than the current distance between many macros in my market.

    Samsung explained that to achieve average downlink speeds of 1.75 Gbps at such extended range, the trial used eight component carriers (8 CC), which is an aggregation of 800 MHz of mmWave spectrum.
    Verizon's already doing 8xCA on their Samsung hardware.

    At its peak, the company also reached a top downlink speed of 2.7 Gbps over a 10 km distance from the radio.
    🔥


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    You asked about mmwave. Which of these partners bought mmwave exactly?
    I don't know whether or not any of them bought any of that spectrum. I have not seen any reports of any of them using it, no info at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blkballoon925 View Post
    There's a lot of advancement coming for mmWave. I think a lot of tech enthusiasts looked at what one might call "first-gen" mmWave -- those early deployments of a single 100 MHz carrier on Nokia hardware in a couple cities in 2018 and 2019 -- and assume that's the best that can be done with the spectrum.

    It's happening. I just saw this article today.

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/...wave-australia



    6.2 miles is farther than the current distance between many macros in my market.



    Verizon's already doing 8xCA on their Samsung hardware.



    🔥
    That's great if the results hold up. The article says that US Cellular is using mmWave in some rural markets, anybody got any info about that?

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