2 Bars but no Data?

**techfranz** · 03-20-2023, 02:09 PM

I am back on Verizon after spending some time on T-Mobile. The on-boarding experience has been great except for the system dropping a network setting from my lines, so I could not receive calls. All is resolved now.

I have one puzzling thing, and it is the dreaded “2 Bars and No Data”. The phrase brings up quite a few threads on Reddit. I think I will register the domain name

I was indoors with Marginal Coverage and pulling about a -106dbm signal. I was unable to get data until I rebooted the phone. Switching to LTE did not help, although once data returned it seemed marginally better. My AT&T eSim did no better and my T-MO eSim connected to data, but it was very slow (Band 71 no doubt). T-Mo had an issue like this with a congested Band 71 connection.

I am guessing the two bars appeared because one of the Bands had a decent signal, however a data transmission was not possible.

I guess a Phone reboot is the best course of action in such cases?

**kaZZoo** · 03-20-2023, 02:15 PM

Dual sim phone

**techfranz** · 03-20-2023, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by kaZZoo

Dual sim phone

I know Dual Sim can cause a performance hit, so I try to leave the extra Carriers turned off. Unless you mean use one sim for Voice and a different Carrier for data?

**kaZZoo** · 03-20-2023, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by tekfranz

I know Dual Sim can cause a performance hit, so I try to leave the extra Carriers turned off.

My next question was going to be if data switching was on.

But, you only had one line active.

Was the reboot before or after you were on one line

**techfranz** · 03-20-2023, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by kaZZoo

My next question was going to be if data switching was on.

But, you only had one line active.

Was the reboot before or after you were on one line

So, when I switched my H2O SIM on, I first turned my VZW one off.
Then I turned my H2O one off and I switched my Tello SIM on.
Then I rebooted and data returned. I also may have moved to an area with more service during this time.
Or so I recall.

I did not have the two on simultaneously, so I did not enable data switching.

**brad15** · 03-21-2023, 04:08 AM

Just sounds like standard congestion. Nothing can be done as you're likely on B13 at that point (even though it says 5G, i'm betting it's not even using the n5 DSS carrier)

**techfranz** · 03-21-2023, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by brad15

Just sounds like standard congestion. Nothing can be done as you're likely on B13 at that point (even though it says 5G, i'm betting it's not even using the n5 DSS carrier)

I was afraid of that. Guess I now await C-Band as well to free up the low-band frequencies.

**brad15** · 03-21-2023, 01:28 PM

Yeah, i just keep a 2nd SIM in my Verizon phone at this point for when data is congested and I really need it.

once work lets me drop Verizon, i'll drop it and not even look back at this point. Where C-Band is deployed, it's a very tolerable experience but they've got a few years before it's actually dense everywhere i'm betting.

**tekfranz** · 03-22-2023, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by brad15

Yeah, i just keep a 2nd SIM in my Verizon phone at this point for when data is congested and I really need it.

once work lets me drop Verizon, i'll drop it and not even look back at this point. Where C-Band is deployed, it's a very tolerable experience but they've got a few years before it's actually dense everywhere i'm betting.

I just checked Cellmapper and the location I had the issue does not have n77 deployed yet. However it’s on several other towers in the area and close to my home.

I wonder why the network does not kick the users off of the band if it is at capacity. It seems like a temporary No Service message would be clearer.

Or maybe thats the phones job to find the best band to connect to?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**blkballoon925** · 03-22-2023, 10:05 PM

Demand is much more fluid than simply being “at capacity.” Every frame has to be scheduled, and in a multi-access wireless network there will be hundreds of constantly changing factors involving signal strength, noise, modulation, demand, and quality of service/priority that affect how much “capacity” is available at any given second.

Moreover, because of the minimal throughput needed for calls and SMS, and the quality of service applied to them, those services usually remain available even when there are inadequate slots left for best-effort data service to function well enough to be usable for a particular application.

**brad15** · 03-22-2023, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by tekfranz

I just checked Cellmapper and the location I had the issue does not have n77 deployed yet. However it’s on several other towers in the area and close to my home.

I wonder why the network does not kick the users off of the band if it is at capacity. It seems like a temporary No Service message would be clearer.

Or maybe thats the phones job to find the best band to connect to?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, it's likely the band is at capacity because that's the *only* usable band available in that particular area.

The network will instruct the device to go to a different band if one is available, but if there's nothing else available.... no dice.

Verizon runs pretty tight small cell areas, and I even notice this around Chicago. Before n77 was just cranking at full power to cover multiple small cells, I could have one city block with barely usable LTE data, and walk 500ft and be under antother small cell that was wide open.

The small cell next to my house is so busy on LTE that they did not even bother lighting up DSS 5G on it.

**Vicpdx17** · 03-23-2023, 01:34 AM

Unfortunately I had a similar experience. I was in the Eloy, AZ/Coolidge,AZ area and both my Dads iPhone 12 and my iPhone 14 plus would have 2 bars but no data.

Honestly it seems as if Verizon does really bad in between Phoenix, AZ and Tucson, AZ with unreliable signal/data where as AT&T did alot better. Though in Phoenix and Tucson Metro areas Verizon does pretty well.

**brad15** · 03-23-2023, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Vicpdx17

Unfortunately I had a similar experience. I was in the Eloy, AZ/Coolidge,AZ area and both my Dads iPhone 12 and my iPhone 14 plus would have 2 bars but no data.

Honestly it seems as if Verizon does really bad in between Phoenix, AZ and Tucson, AZ with unreliable signal/data where as AT&T did alot better. Though in Phoenix and Tucson Metro areas Verizon does pretty well.

I've not lived in Phoenix since 2016, but when I was there Verizon was severly congested and T-Mobile was the best one in the valley for working data. Verizon had too many sites just spaced for CDMA with no great push for capacity on LTE

Sprint was a mess with barely any LTE coverage when I left, AT&T was *finally* starting to invest money into the network there (they were super dicey before the EDGE shutdown)

AT&T now seems to be the best one in the valley from everyone I still know who lives there, T-Mobile has filled in well, and C-Band will help Verizon tremendously.

**tekfranz** · 03-23-2023, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by blkballoon925

Moreover, because of the minimal throughput needed for calls and SMS, and the quality of service applied to them, those services usually remain available even when there are inadequate slots left for best-effort data service to function well enough to be usable for a particular application.

Yes, it makes sense to show the phone as being in Service with signal bars because voice and text may technically still be available even though data is not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**VVivian** · 03-23-2023, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by brad15

Well, it's likely the band is at capacity because that's the *only* usable band available in that particular area.

The network will instruct the device to go to a different band if one is available, but if there's nothing else available.... no dice.

Verizon runs pretty tight small cell areas, and I even notice this around Chicago. Before n77 was just cranking at full power to cover multiple small cells, I could have one city block with barely usable LTE data, and walk 500ft and be under antother small cell that was wide open.

The small cell next to my house is so busy on LTE that they did not even bother lighting up DSS 5G on it.

Side note: Cells becoming that small is why mmWave became logical. If you’re gonna have a small cell every few hundred feet anyway, why not jump to 28/39 GHz?